Intro: [upbeat music] Welcome to the Spoken Gospel podcast. This is our attempt to speak the gospel out of every corner of scripture. We believe every part of the Bible, Old Testament and New, is about Jesus, and this podcast is our experiment to publicly test that belief. Let's jump in. [upbeat music]
David: Well, welcome everyone to the Spoken Gospel podcast. Thank you so much for joining us.
Seth: Welcome, and thank you.
David: Yeah. We, uh, we are continuing in the book of Deuteronomy today, and, uh, we're gonna be going through-
Seth: A misnamed book [laughs]
David: ... the misnamed book of Deuteronomy.
Seth: The translation error named book. [laughs]
David: Yes. Yes. So it is-
Seth: Still my favorite fact about Deuteronomy so far.
David: It is. It'll probably keep coming up. Um, and, uh, we talked about that in, I think, in the introduction episode, so if you missed that-
Seth: That's right
David: ... w- wait, what? What, what do you mean it's misnamed? Go back and listen to the introduction.
Seth: At one point in Deuteronomy-
David: No, don't, no, no, don't explain it to them again.
Seth: Okay. All right. Fine. Fine. Fine.
David: Because then that's the hook to get them to go back [laughs] and listen to it.
Seth: You gotta go back and listen to it. [laughs]
David: [laughs] Uh, and so we're in chapter 7, and, uh, we're gonna go through chapter 9, although, um, 7 through, what is it?
Seth: 11.
David: 11.
Seth: Kind of form a literary unit. So essentially, Moses, that's the right character. I was gonna say Abraham for a second.
David: Yeah, don't do that.
Seth: Moses is, uh, kinda introducing, uh, his people to a bunch of laws are gonna come in starting in chapter 12. And so he's kinda reorienting them around the first four of the Ten Commandments, saying, "Be faithful to God. Remember what he's done for you. Do not forget him."
David: Mm-hmm.
Seth: "Uh, let him be your God alone." And that's kind of like a theme from chapter 6 all the way to chapter 11, and it's really like, "Trust God, remember God, fear God, do what he commands," and then he lists-
David: Yes
Seth: ... the commands afterwards.
David: Yeah, if you read straight through 7 through 11, which I highly encourage you to do-
Seth: So I will
David: ... you will, yeah, you will feel like it's a bit repetitive at times, where it's like, "Don't forget the Lord. Remember the Lord. Obey the Lord. Love the Lord."
Seth: Yeah.
David: "Because he loved you. He saved you. He rescued you. So remember the Lord. Don't forget the Lo- " And it feels very mu- And that is, um, I think the point [laughs] of this whole passage-
Seth: Right
David: ... is, is like, "Remember what the Lord has done for you so that your heart will love him, and then you will obey him." Like, that's kind of the, like-
Seth: Even though, so Deuteronomy means second law, and even though that's a mistranslation, it's actually kinda helpful here because in chapter 7 through 11, Moses is kind of expounding upon the first four commandments of the Ten Commandments.
David: Right.
Seth: And then from 12 to 26, he's kind of expanding on the last six of the Ten Commandments. So there, it does make sense to name it that way, but, like, that's kinda what's happening here. He's expounding on, "Love the Lord with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength. Love your neighbor, uh, and don't have any idols before me."
David: Yes.
Seth: "Keep the Sabbath day." That's kinda where he's at right now for these five chapters.
David: Right. Um, so, but before we, but now we're just gonna kinda walk through these cycles 'cause there's little, I, I hate this word.
Seth: Nuggets?
David: Yep, that's exactly the word I was gonna say. [laughs] But it just-
Seth: Little, little, little tenders, little chicken t-
David: Well
Seth: ... gospel tenders. [laughs]
David: Little gospel chicken tenders. Uh-
Seth: Gospel tenders is worse than gospel nugget, I think.
David: Yeah, I think you're right. We found a worse one. But there are little nuggets in this passage-
Seth: Little
David: ... um, that we just couldn't speed through chapter 7 through 11.
Seth: Speed. Speed it. Me-
David: Oh my gosh, you're still going. [laughs]
Seth: [laughs]
David: Uh, because there's just some really great stuff in here, and some things that should sound really familiar to you if you are a New Testament reader. Um, and so the first one I would wanna point out is in chapter 7 verse 6, uh, where God says, um, why he saved Israel, why he chose Israel over every other nation on the face of the planet, and that was not because they were more numerous than anyone else on the planet, or more powerful. Uh, in fact, they were the smallest and fewest and weakest people group on the face of the planet.
Seth: You're-
David: And that's why God chose them.
Seth: They, they are his treasured possession, like, his prized people-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... because they were the smallest. And then he goes on and says he, "It's because I love you."
David: Yeah.
Seth: Verse 8, "But it is because the Lord loves you and is keeping the oath that he swore to his fathers."
David: Right.
Seth: Why, uh, why is Israel his people? Because one, uh, you're the smallest.
David: [laughs]
Seth: Not because you're great. You're the smallest. But two, I just love you, and three, I promised your father, your forefathers-
David: Mm
Seth: ... that I would be true to you.
David: Yeah.
Seth: So it's really beautiful. [laughs]
David: It's a beautiful picture into the heart of God that he loves the weakest and the smallest. Um, and not only loves them, but then, like, treasures them and possesses them and, like, holds them dear and close. Like, it's just-
Seth: [laughs]
David: ... this is a really tender passage.
Seth: It is, and I just, I learned something today as I was studying this. The, uh, the people that Moses is speaking to are actually the firstborn that were passed over in Egypt.
David: Oh.
Seth: So from the very beginning of these children's lives has been marked by God's love, his kindness, a- particularly towards them as they were the fewest and the most oppressed. Like, from the very beginning, like, they had been passed over.
David: Mm.
Seth: Their lives had been nothing but grace because God passed over them by the blood of that lamb. [laughs] Isn't that amazing?
David: Yeah, it is amazing. It, so okay, so the, the, the children in Egypt that should have died whenever the angel of the Lord came through and killed the firstborn of Egypt, they were passed over by the blood of the lamb. And, like, and h- I'm remembering now, I think it's in Numbers. Um, it might have, it might have been in Leviticus. I can't remember. When, when the first ri- when the firstborn are ransomed. Do you remember that?
Seth: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
David: When they were bought.
Seth: Yep.
David: And he says, "Because I bought you in Egypt-"
Seth: Right
David: ..."so I own you now, and so all your firstborn need to be bought back from me." You know, with money
Seth: How fascinating
David: Remember that?
Seth: Yeah. Yeah, yeah
David: It's like literally he's like, "You're my treasured possession."
Seth: Oh. [laughs]
David: "I, I bought you. I own you."
Seth: [laughs]
David: "You're my possession. Like that, that's what happened whenever I ransomed you in Egypt. I literally bought you for myself." So like he is, I think he's intentionally wanting these children now grown up who a- who remember the day the Lord saved their lives-
Seth: Yeah. He-
David: ... a- and bought them like to, to be remembering this-
Seth: Even here verse nine and 10, "Know therefore that the Lord your God is, is God. The faithful God who keeps covenant and steadfast love with those who love him and keep his commandments. And," verse 10, "repays to their face those who hate him," which is ex- actually what happened-
David: Oh
Seth: ... to Pharaoh-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... by destroying him. He will not be slack with one who hates him. Like-
David: Mm
Seth: ... he's like saying, he's projecting into the future like, "Obey my commands. If you don't, you'll face punishments just like Pharaoh. Your life started with me passing over you, and it can continue that way as well. Hold fast to my commands."
David: Wow. Yeah. And then, and so what's amazing then i- I think it might be easy for us to go like, "Wow, God's like really kind and really beautiful, and that's really good for them."
Seth: Yep.
David: "But what about me?" You know? [laughs] And, and when we turn the page into the New Testament, Peter in 1 Peter 2:9 ends up using this term for us as Christians, his church. Like he calls us the treasured-
Seth: There we are
David: ... possession of God because we have been bought not by the blood of a lamb, but by the blood of Jesus, the Son of God.
Seth: Yes.
David: And so now we are this treasured possession. And he goes on to say, "Once you were not a people, but now you are God's people." Right? And so this-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... chosen language here, you know, we might think like, "Well, Israel was chosen, but I was like, I don't know, like an afterthought if I'm a Gentile."
Seth: Right
David: You know?
Seth: And it wasn't because you were particularly great-
David: Right
Seth: ... but it's because you were particularly needy. You were-
David: Yes
Seth: ... fewest. God decided to love you. He is keeping a promise he made to people beforehand. And I think, I, I was thinking about this because it says here that God chose Israel because they were fewest. In verse f- Deuteronomy 9:4 it says-
David: Oh, right, not because they were ri- righteous
Seth: Not because you were righteous. But, uh, I will thrust the other people out for being wicked. So I was thinking like there is an asymmetry to the way that salvation works. The way that we are saved is not by good works.
David: Right.
Seth: It's not by being righteous. It is by being needy, by being fewest, and by being God's prized possession.
David: Mm-hmm.
Seth: And because we are his prized possession, we obey and we enter into the promised land. But if we are wicked, we are cast out.
David: Mm-hmm.
Seth: So like it is not our good works that get us into heaven, but it is our wicked deeds that do cast us out of his kingdom.
David: Oh, I understand.
Seth: So do, do you see-
David: Yep
Seth: ... what I'm saying there?
David: Yes.
Seth: So like I think that's interest- I thought that was interesting here, and it's true in the New Testament as well.
David: Yep.
Seth: Like we don't gain entrance into heaven by doing enough good deeds. Even in Revelation 21, those who are thirsty come, and the evil sorcerers, sexually immoral are cast out.
David: Right. Mm-hmm.
Seth: Like there is like, it's the needy, it's the weak, it's the people who recognize that they are not righteous who are welcomed into the kingdom.
David: Yes.
Seth: And those who reject God's way who are cast out.
David: Yeah.
Seth: It's funny.
David: I just think that's really good news. It's also helpful for why it might, it, it might be hard for us to hold those things in tension, where it's like, "Well, I know that if I'm wicked I, you know, I'll be cast out." You know, that kind of thing.
Seth: Right.
David: And it's like, "So therefore, I must be good to be accepted."
Seth: Yeah.
David: It's e- it's really hard for us to hold those things in tension-
Seth: I mean, I was reading-
David: ... whereas-
Seth: Verse 20:12
David: ... yeah, the Bible doesn't
Seth: It says, "And because you listen to these rules and keep them and do them, the Lord your God will keep his covenant with you." So it sounds like super conditional.
David: Yes.
Seth: Do this, then you get entrance to the promised land. But actually what comes before the doing this is being God's treasured possession.
David: Yeah.
Seth: And like we always want to like short-circuit those and put the good works before being a treasured possession, and that's not the way God's salvific economy entering into the new Eden works ever.
David: Right. Yes.
Seth: Not even in the T- Torah.
David: Right.
Seth: Like it's always been grace first, obedience second, and then you enter.
David: Yes. Oh, I love that. And, and I just think it's, it's a really good reminder for us, and I think it should, I think this should come and kind of gut check us as Christians and go, "Why are, why are you a Christian?" It's not because you were particularly intelligent and figured out that you should put your faith in Jesus. It's not because you won the culture lottery and happy, and happened to be born in a Christian family, right? It's not because, um, you were smarter than your unbelieving siblings or, or like more spiritual than them.
Seth: More righteous.
David: Like you s-
Seth: Right. Yeah
David: More righteous. You know, like you know what I'm saying? It's like no, if you're a Christian, it's because you were acutely in need [laughs] of a savior.
Seth: If you were in need-
David: You were about to die
Seth: ... of Kanye West's new album that just dropped.
David: Yeah. I, I've listened to it a couple times.
Seth: So like the, his song Hands On.
David: Yep.
Seth: So like we could debate whether or not he's a true Christian, but he seems to be professing Jesus is Lord. [laughs]
David: Yeah.
Seth: Jesus is King.
David: Right.
Seth: And he says, "You Christians are the first ones to judge me."
David: That's right.
Seth: Like I'm like, and it's, and it was like a, it was like hard for me to hear. It was convicting for me to hear that because like, ah, really?
David: Yeah.
Seth: You've been kind of a sinner your entire life, uh, 8 records. I, I listened to My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy.
David: Right. [laughs]
Seth: And you said, "I am a god" so like I'm pretty unsure that you could actually be a Christian. But like he's right to rebuke me there because-
David: Oh, yes
Seth: ... it's not based on Kanye's righteousness-
David: No
Seth: ... that he's a Christian. It's based on his neediness, which is-
David: Yes
Seth: ... he actually admits in his album. Anyway.
David: Yeah. No, it's true.
Seth: Israel's Kanye in our analogy. [laughs]
David: [laughs] Hilarious. Oh, man. Yeah, okay, that's good. Um, okay, let's keep going to another famous statement in chapter seven. Um-
Seth: 21, "You shall not be in dread of them because the Lord will send hornets after them," I thought. [laughs]
David: That's the one I was definitely referencing. Yes, absolutely.
Seth: I was like, that is the worst possible- Way to fight a war, just to just be stung repeatedly by bees.
David: You know what I've, I've heard argued from this passage, though. Have you heard people use this to argue anything?
Seth: No.
David: Okay. So Gregory Boyd uses this-
Seth: Okay
David: ... in his massive book, I don't even wanna say the name.
Seth: Yeah, Origin for the Fall of Man something.
David: Yeah, that one.
Seth: Yeah.
David: Yeah, I'm not even gonna s- I don't wanna plug it, so I'm not saying the full name. [laughs]
Seth: David doesn't like B- Greg Boyd.
David: I like him as a Christian.
Seth: If, if it wasn't created by David's column.
David: A- as a, as a, as a, as a believer and as a fol- fellow follower of Jesus, I love him.
Seth: As a scholar and a Christian.
David: But as a scholar, I'm just, I'm not gonna recommend you read his books.
Seth: Okay.
David: Um, I think that's fair. I think that's fair. I think he'll be in heaven with me. Uh, I, I'm almost certain of it. But-
Seth: Along with Kanye.
David: Along with Kanye, hopefully.
Seth: [laughs]
David: Uh, anyway, uh, but he uses this, uh, whole passage to talk about how, um, it was God's original plan to drive out the inhabitants not through violence, but to use things like hornets-
Seth: Oh
David: ... and-
Seth: But by bees
David: ... earthquakes and by bees-
Seth: Oh, interesting
David: ... and that would drive them out. Or the... Y- yeah, and, and so, and they-
Seth: Huh
David: ... they were like, "No, we're gonna do it through our strength." But if you read it, it is super clear that those, um-
Seth: Hmm
David: ... kind of extracurricular activities of God through sending hornets and stuff, um, were not the primary thrust-
Seth: Extracurricular
David: ... of the driving out. Yeah, I know.
Seth: [laughs]
David: But were, but were like, "Oh, and then there'll be these dwindling pockets of Canaanites over here."
Seth: Right.
David: "But don't worry about them. I'll go get them with hornets. You focus-
Seth: Well, it says-
David: ... on the main fight."
Seth: Right above, right above that, "You're gonna say, 'These nations are greater than I. How can I dispossess them?' But remember Pharaoh. I came down and sent, you know, hail storms and fire and blood-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... and I did all that, and now I'm gonna do it again, and this time I'm gonna send bees." And like, it's like-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... it's from God's hand directly. And I don't think you can get away with saying like this is not, this is a violent act, even if it is-
David: Yes, from God
Seth: ... God sending bees.
David: Or, yeah, yeah, it's, yeah, it is still a violent act.
Seth: Or even if it's just a battle str- strategy. I, etymological, not etym- what, what's that, what's the word for bugs, like the scientific word for-
David: Oh, entomology.
Seth: Entomo- entomological warfare is a thing.
David: [laughs] Entomological warfare.
Seth: It's a thing. I didn't realize this, but like throughout history-
David: Is that a band name?
Seth: It's, called it. [laughs] Like, it's like, it's a thing throughout history. People, like, would s- like, uh, put beehives on catapults and catapult them into cities.
David: What?
Seth: And like-
David: So yeah, entomological warfare. There you go.
Seth: It's coming. [gentle music]
David: Okay, that's not the passage I was thinking of, though.
Seth: [laughs]
David: It was definitely, um, man does not live on bread alone.
Seth: Oh, yes, that one. [laughs]
David: Which is far more popular of a verse than God will send hornets into their land. Um, so yeah, let's, let's talk about man shall not live on bread alone. Do you wanna read that in context? Do you have that pulled up there?
Seth: Yes. Uh, which verse do you wanna start with?
David: Oh, I don't know. Whatever you-
Seth: Hmm
David: ... whatever you feel like. What cha- is it?
Seth: It's eight. It's in eight.
David: Oh, it's eight, not seven.
Seth: Not seven.
David: That's why I couldn't find it. Yeah, so it's, yeah, let's just start with, uh, verse two.
Seth: And you shall-
David: "You shall remember..." Oh, go ahead. Yep.
Seth: Oh, we can at the same time.
David: Do you wanna do it at the same time? [laughs]
Seth: [laughs] "And you shall remember the whole way that the Lord your God has led you these 40 years in the wilderness, that he might humble you, testing you to know what is in your heart, whether you could keep his commandments or not." Pause right there.
David: Yeah.
Seth: I think what he's doing is he's setting up the manna. It's, he calls it a test.
David: Yes.
Seth: It's the same test Adam and Eve had in the garden between following God's commands-
David: Oh, dang
Seth: ... and not following his commands.
David: Yeah.
Seth: His word, keeping his word, not keeping his word. "And he humbled you and let you hunger and fed you with manna, which you did not know nor did your fathers know, that he might make you know that man does not live by bread alone, but man lives by every word that comes from out of the mouth of God" Which was the point of the Garden of Eden narrative. You cannot live by the tree of the fruit alone, only by the word of God-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... which was do not eat that fruit. So I think this is actually Israel's, it was Israel's test. It was their test on the border of E- of Eden.
David: Yeah.
Seth: Can they enter in? And they failed it. Um, but it's also the same test is before us right now, like life and death, blessing and cursing, like-
David: Right
Seth: ... what Moses ends up doing is he pulls this thread all the way to chapter 30, and he gives the new generation the same test the old generation had and the same test Adam and Eve had on the border of the garden. Will you choose life or death, the word of God or your own opinion of what the word of God should be and, and should-
David: Wow
Seth: ... should do.
David: Yeah.
Seth: So I think that's meta level-
David: I think-
Seth: ... what's happening
David: ... exactly what I was about to say. I think that is what we could call maybe the canonical context of this passage. I think the immediate context of the passage, which does not at all, is not meant to be at odds with what you just said, 'cause I think it's 100% right, um, is, is-
Seth: It even describes the fact here that he clothed them, so just like God clothed Adam and Eve-
David: Oh, my goodness
Seth: ... after-
David: You're right
Seth: ... uh, their fall. Uh, he clothed them after their failure to eat the manna in the wilderness. Like it's a thing.
David: Yep.
Seth: Anyway, continuing.
David: That's crazy. So but, uh, in the, in the immediate context, he's talking about, um, whether or not you will obey God's commands, and if you obey them, it will be life for you. If you disobey them, it will be death for you. And he's like, "Now think about this. When you think about how you sustain your life, uh, what do you think about?" Especially as a nomadic tribe living in the wilderness, you think food.
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: And we survive on manna. Like manna is life to us. And, um, and we often think, like, hunger, like, like hunger is life, and like eating is life, and if I'm going to sustain my life, I need to eat. But what God is trying to prove to them in this little beautiful saying that man does not live on bread alone but by everything that comes from the mouth of God is, is that it's not, bread is not life to you. That, that, that, that sustains your physical body. True life and what will really sustain you and what will really lead to ultimate flourishing and ultimate life is obeying my commandments-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... is keeping my commands. That is life to you. Um-
Seth: The manna is-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... also the word of God. So like, and what is-
David: Right
Seth: ... lost in the garden is restored by the Torah. When you obey the words of the Torah, you gain the garden. Like, I think-
David: Oh, I see
Seth: ... that's the pa- Does that, that make, that make sense?
David: Let me, uh, kind of. Let me piece- Let me, let me repeat it back. Did I... So-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... when we obey the commandments of God in the wilderness, we also get the garden, which is being, like, what? Like, foreshadowed by God providing food in manna?
Seth: Well, it's, uh, the, the test was eat the manna at the appropriate time.
David: Right. Not on the Sabbath.
Seth: Not on the Sabbath.
David: Don't hoard it up.
Seth: Don't do all that.
David: Don't too much... Yeah, okay.
Seth: The same way it was like do not eat of this tree, eat of the other trees. That's what will sustain you, not this disobedience. And so when we eat of the manna, the word of God, the law of God, we would've stayed in the garden. If Adam and Eve would've eaten the manna of the other trees in the garden and not what they decided, they would've stayed in the garden. Here too, when they trust the manna of God, the word of God, the law of God-
David: Mm-hmm
Seth: ... to eat the manna in its proper time, they will enter the garden. For the new generation, it means that when you obey the word of God, as I've laid out in the commands in the, in the Book of Leviticus, in the Torah, you will enter into the garden as well. Does that make sense?
David: That-
Seth: Is that better?
David: Yeah, that, that's making more sense. So what's crazy then, uh, if I'm hearing you right, is that obedience to God is akin to feasting. Like, eating-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... and it's a good thing. Like-
Seth: Yeah, yeah
David: ... come and eat free food that came from heaven. It's just here. And maybe, like, take a double portion on Friday so you can just chill out on Saturday on the Sabbath.
Seth: Yeah.
David: Like, that was the commandment.
Seth: Yes.
David: I made a whole garden for you.
Seth: Yeah.
David: Go enjoy it. Eat it. This doesn't sound like a burdensome command to me. It just sounds like good news.
Seth: Right.
David: And that is keeping the commandments of God. We don't, but we don't view the commandments and laws of God like that. We view them as restrictive and prohibitory, and like they're going to weed out life for us. They're going to make it-
Seth: Yeah, yeah
David: ... make life not worth living. But no, he's saying l- following the Torah and the commands that are set out for you in it is like, is like eating the, the harvest of a whole garden.
Seth: Which is why when Jesus does this miracle in John 6, there are 12 baskets of leftovers. Like, there is a feast found in the word of God. Man can't just eat bread.
David: Right.
Seth: He must eat bread and the word of God in order to survive. Like, and it, and, uh, what happened in Israel? They ate the bread, they ate the manna, but did not eat the word of God-
David: Mm
Seth: ... and experienced exile.
David: Yeah.
Seth: So we as Christians looking to Jesus must eat the bread that he provides, which he says is his own body-
David: Yes
Seth: ... but also him as the word of God, the Torah incarnate.
David: Mm-hmm.
Seth: So he, which, um, is, so John says Jesus is the word of God. And so I was trying to think of like a really concrete picture of that, but I think it's just communion. In communion, you do not eat bread alone. You eat bread and the word of God, his blood shed for you.
David: Yeah.
Seth: The blood and the wine. It's a symbol that we do not eat, live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God.
David: Yeah.
Seth: Jesus' body and his blood.
David: Right, and it was a test to see what was in their hearts. And so like, um, you know, in John 6, m- most scholars agree this is probably not pointing to communion itself. A- at least-
Seth: No
David: ... it's a peripheral thing. It's definitely a secondary meaning. But it-
Seth: Communion is about John 6. John 6-
David: Yes
Seth: ... is not about communion.
David: That's a good way to put it.
Seth: Yeah.
David: And so, um, you know, it, it, but this whole eating the flesh of Jesus is, is paralleled in John 6 with believing that he is the word of God from eternity past. Like, believing who he is, believing that he is the ultimate manna from heaven that will sustain us. And so, like, believing in him is not living on bread alone, but by the word that came from the mouth of God.
Seth: Yes.
David: The, yeah, the, uh, the other thing we have to talk about is Jesus' temptation in Matthew 4.
Seth: Yeah, we do.
David: Yeah.
Seth: And, uh, just to back up what you just said, D- Deuteronomy 9:22, Moses tells the, the people, the main sin in all this was your lack of belief in God. It's like that's exactly what you said.
David: Oh.
Seth: Like-
David: Yes
Seth: ... Moses points us back to there. It's like disobedience, yes, but really a lack of faith. Like, you did not take God at his word.
David: Mm-hmm.
Seth: You did not trust the word of God, and as a symptom of that distrust, you therefore disobeyed.
David: Yeah. That's really good. That's really good. Um, okay, so then Jesus-
Seth: Sorry, yeah
David: ... I think, I think the reason why this passage is famous is because of the temptation of Jesus-
Seth: Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes
David: ... in recorded in Matthew 4. So Jesus is, is fasting for 40 days and 40 nights, which is incredibly significant to a Torah reader.
Seth: Just like Moses was on the mountain for 40 days and 40 nights [laughs].
David: Which we will read about in the coming chapters.
Seth: Yes.
David: He's going to recount this story to us. So, uh, we're meant, like Jesus knew what the story he was pulling on, obviously, and he's fasting-
Seth: 'Cause the Israelites only roamed there for 40 years
David: ... for 40 days, 40 nights, and the tempter comes to him. Yeah, yeah, yeah, and he's in the wilderness.
Seth: Yeah.
David: Um, and, and so, um, and so the tempter comes to him and, and the first temptation he brings to him in Matthew 4 is, I don't know, maybe take that stone and turn it into bread. You know, Moses was able to take a stone, strike it, and make water out of it. Why don't you take it and make some bread? And like-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... the, the, the big question I always asked was like would that have been sinful if the, for Jesus to make bread out of a rock? Like, I don't think so.
Seth: In that moment, well, it's not sinful for Jesus to use his power, but what's, the test isn't about eating or not eating. It's about trusting-
David: Right
Seth: ... God.
David: Yes.
Seth: So for Jesus to make the bread in that moment would be to say, "I do not trust God to provide for me."
David: To, yeah. Mm-hmm.
Seth: "So I will take it upon myself," just like the people of Israel did when they gathered more bread than they should have. So if Jesus was to make the bread, he would've been repeating the sins of Israel. So what does he do? He gives them Moses' advice, "No, man shall not eat by bread alone, but o- but by, but by the words that proceed out the mouth of God. I will obey the commandments surrounding the manna, and I will only eat what the Father gives me."
David: Yes. Oh, that's good. That's really good, yeah.
Seth: I don't think it's, I've heard it that clearly either between like the disobedience with the manna and Jesus' obedience- I don't- that was helpful for me.
David: That's very helpful for me.
Seth: Yeah.
David: Yes. Um, and so, you know, the, like, the, the point we're making here is to, you know, that, that, that following God's commandments is, is like, um, obeying him in the Garden of Eden. It's like obeying him in the wilderness to enter the Promised Land. These are the, like, the big crucial pillar moments throughout the Old Testament that were meant to be the cat- like, the catalytic moments that brought people into final eternal communion with God in the Garden of Eden, and Adam and Eve failed, and Israel and Moses failed. And now there's a new person in a new wilderness offering, but, but being offered the same temptation-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... and he succeeds where everyone else failed, right?
Seth: Yes.
David: But it's not that he succeeded in not giving in just to Satan's temptation, right?
Seth: Right.
David: He ended up passing the test that-
Seth: Yes
David: ... every other heart failed to pass, that he would-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... trust in God alone and his word and his promises above everything else, and for that, he earns us victory over this, this fall, this temptation-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... like, and brings us into an eternal promised land with him.
Seth: Have you read The Space Trilogy by C.S. Lewis?
David: Oh, many times. Many times.
Seth: It's so good, and in the second one, Perelandra-
David: Oh, yes
Seth: ... Lewis imagines that there is another creation and fall story happening on Venus, right?
David: Venus.
Seth: It's Venus.
David: Yep, Venus.
Seth: And so there's a, a Venetian Eve and a Venetian Adam, and then a-
David: Well, there's no Ven- well, there's kind of a Venetian Adam. He's like, he's hardly present at all.
Seth: Yeah. Well-
David: He's always aloof
Seth: ... there, well, anyway, it ends up happening. The same story plays out with another deceiver-
David: Yep
Seth: ... in the garden, and he passes the test in Ven- on Venus. And I was like, "That is so brilliant of him, but he just stole it from the Bible." Like, that story-
David: [laughs]
Seth: ... is being repeated in different eras throughout history and it's like, oh, like, that's just a biblical idea, and he just-
David: Yep
Seth: ... put it on different planets. Huh. Anyway, that was just-
David: Yep
Seth: ... what my mind went through.
David: Definitely. Yeah, definitely. Definitely.
Seth: You should read it. It's de- it's delightful.
David: If, yeah, if you have not read C.S. Lewis's Space Trilogy, Out of, Out of the Silent Planet, Perelandra, and That Hideous Strength, or as I like to call it, That Hideous Length, because it-
Seth: It's, it's long
David: ... it's longer.
Seth: And it's odder.
David: It is odd. Yeah, yeah. O-D-D-E-R.
Seth: Apparently, apparently he, like, um, each one of his science fiction books is patterned after a different genre of science fiction or at the time.
David: Yep. So I think the first one was H.G. Wells.
Seth: Yep. Uh-
David: Uh, Perelandra, I can't remember which.
Seth: I don't know what-
David: Anyway, it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter.
Seth: Whatever.
David: But anyway, yeah. I'm a huge fan of The Space Trilogy.
Seth: Okay.
David: Absolutely wonderful. Okay, um, so let's, I wanna make one more comment about-
Seth: Mm-hmm
David: ... this section and then we'll, we'll look, um, at, at maybe-
Seth: Nine
David: ... what's after this. But yes. But, um, this little statement here, uh, "Your sandals did not wear out, neither did your feet swell during your 40 years in the wilderness." Like, when I read that, I was like, it seems like one of those things that God had to literally point out to the people, and then they're like, "Oh, you're right. Like, my sandals are still, like, fine after miles and miles and years and years of wear and tear. My sandals are still, like, perfectly fine. And yeah, you're right, my feet never got sore, and, like, my, they never swelled up and they never, I never got, like, a leg rash because of all the walking."
Seth: Right.
David: It's such an amazing, like, tiny miracle that God did.
Seth: Yeah.
David: And I, I, it reminds me of those times where I'll, I'll, I'll realize the s- like, the minute sustaining power of God in all things.
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: And I'm like, oh, right. It's God who-
Seth: Right
David: ... keeps the tide where it is. You know, like just little things where you're just like, oh yeah, God did that, and, like, God sustains that, is just what-
Seth: I-
David: I just think it's so cool.
Seth: I keep thinking in my mind like, okay, well, if this is a, a hyperlink back to Eden when God clothes them with, um, the animal skin. I, I thought verse five was a strange verse. "Know then in your heart that as a man disciplines his son, the Lord disciplines you," right after the fact that he clothes them. Like-
David: Oh, right
Seth: ... "Your sandals didn't wear out. I gave you..." I was like, oh, the whole point of the clothes in Eden was actually part of God's discipline.
David: Yes.
Seth: It was grace, but it was also discipline towards them. This is not, is not the way that things should be, so here, have these clothes. And in the same way, God's mercy and grace towards them in the desert can also act as a type of discipline towards them. Like, I provided for you. Do not neglect the grace that I have showed you. Like, does that make sense? It, it-
David: Yeah. Another way to say it, another way to say it is when God clothed Adam and Eve with the skin of the animal and kicked them out of the garden, he clothed them a- um, so they could no longer be naked and unashamed. He clothed them to go be out in the fallen world. Like-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... being out in the fallen world is punishment-
Seth: Right
David: ... but there was a small bit of grace in that they were covered.
Seth: Yes.
David: In the same way, when, when Israel was given shoes that never wore out, um, they still had-
Seth: Because they, yeah
David: ... they still had to keep walking for 40 years.
Seth: Yeah, in the wilderness.
David: Like it's still-
Seth: They failed the test-
David: Yeah, it's still part of the-
Seth: ... and were walking out. Yeah. [laughs]
David: It's still part of the punishment. Like, he gave them, uh, you know, magic shoes, but the magic shoes were there so that they could continue walking in their punishment.
Seth: And the point stands-
David: So yeah, it, yeah
Seth: ... God provides for our needs, all of them, from creation to walking the wilderness, God is providing for us constantly. And the call from Moses each and every time is, "Do not forget the Lord your God. Do not forget the Lord your God. Have no other gods before him, because he is the only God who will do this."
David: Yeah. I think it's amazing that God provides for us even in the times when he's disciplining us.
Seth: Which is the thing that we're most prone to forget.
David: Yes.
Seth: Like, we could probably maybe look back and see the times that God was good to us in just, like, big ways. The birth of my children.
David: Right.
Seth: But if you were to look back on that week that was really hard, week three of my third baby-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... like, I probably wouldn't remember any good thing from that time.
David: Yeah.
Seth: And that's where it starts. Like, our forgetfulness starts where our sinfulness begins, and we need to be vigilant constantly. That's why Moses over and over again, "Do not forget."
David: Yep.
Seth: You are prone to forget. The more you have, the more prone you'll be to forget. Don't forget. Anyway
David: Yeah, it's really good. Yeah, even in, even in week three of your third kid, you're probably not going to remember the fact that, oh yeah, but Gloria did sleep.
Seth: Right.
David: You know?
Seth: Yeah, yeah.
David: And like, we did have- people did bring us some food, and there were prob- probably some other sweet moments that God gave me magic sandals even whenever I had to walk around the wilderness. You know?
Seth: Yeah.
David: I just think that's cool that God provides us, provides for us, uh, even in the midst of discipline. [gentle music] Okay, and you, you just said something else too that I, I just wanna touch on before we move to chapter 9. You, you, you said like Moses is constantly saying the same thing, "Do not forget, do not forget, do not forget." And the reason he's saying that is because they are about to enter into a land that is just full of comfort. Like, he describes it in chapter 9 like there are rocks in this land that you could go to and just pluck out handfuls of copper. Like-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... it's like a magical land. There's-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... health is there
Seth: ... in chapter 2 he talked about like vineyards you didn't plan-
David: Yes
Seth: ... houses you didn't build, all that kinda stuff, so yeah, yeah.
David: Totally. And he says, "So when you go and you get comfy and you get rich, be careful because you will forget." And so, uh, he's saying that there is something innate in comfort and wealth and provision that, um, causes us to forget God. And I think it's meant to be in stark juxt- juxtaposition with this whole story of manna in the wilderness, because the manna in the wilderness was a day-to-day provision.
Seth: Mm.
David: Right?
Seth: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
David: And they were dependent. Hand-to-mouth. They were hand-to-mouth. And then now, uh, when they go in, they'll, they'll have enough, and like-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... they'll be able to store some stuff up in their barns and, you know, like it's gonna be way different than the wilderness years, and they won't have the-
Seth: Beware lest you say in your heart, "My power and the might of my hand have gotten me this wealth."
David: Yeah.
Seth: That's the-
David: Yeah, they, yeah, they won't have this like innate cycle of dependence that reminds them of their own need and their own weakness. Instead-
Seth: It gives me such-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... better visuals for the love of money is the root of all evil.
David: Mm.
Seth: Be- and it's the root of all evil because it's the root of disbelief, at least in Israel's history.
David: Yeah.
Seth: Israel had wealth, and it caused them to forget God, which led them to idolatry, which led them to further sin, and eventually exile. The love of money isn't just philosophically the root-
David: Ah, yes
Seth: ... of all evil.
David: It's the narratival-
Seth: It's the actual narratival truth of Israel's history. Your love of money has led you to be conquered by Rome.
David: Yeah.
Seth: Like, it is the root of all evil.
David: Yeah. So I just think it's a good warning for us, then, um, you know, even there on the lips of Jesus, you know, where it's like let's just, especially if we're, if you're listening to this and you're a Western Christian who has the capabilities to listen to a podcast on your iPhone, like you definitely qualify for this warning, as do Seth and I, that we must be careful that we do not grow so comfortable that we forget God. Now, what he does not say is y- you know, you're gonna go into this land, and it's gonna be super blessed, so don't enjoy any of the blessings. It's evil to enjoy a vineyard that you did not plant.
Seth: Right.
David: That's not what he says.
Seth: He says-
David: He says, he says, "Just, just be careful."
Seth: He says, "Remember me." He says, "Remember-
David: Remember the Lord your God, for it is he who gives you power to get wealth, that he may confirm his covenant that he swore to his fathers. Like, if you have wealth, great, but it comes from God.
Seth: Yes.
David: Don't like assume you have, that's from you. Actually, Nebuchadnezzar says it-
Seth: Ah, yes
David: ... in the Book of Daniel, and he's like, "Look what I've created by my hand and what I've done for the glory of my majesty." And he goes insane in the next, [laughs] in the next chapter-
Seth: [laughs]
David: ... because he's like he goes against this right here.
Seth: Yes.
David: It is the root of all evil.
Seth: Yeah.
David: Totally.
Seth: It's good.
David: So I just wanted to, I just wanted to bring up that warning. Um, and how do we fight complacency and forgetfulness and comfort? Uh, we fight it by remembering God's faithfulness, because that's what happens for the rest of chapter 8. He says, "Just remember that I brought you out of Egypt, and I saved you, and I provided for you." So just like thankfulness is the antidote for complacency.
Seth: Yeah.
David: So just re- rehearse the gospel to yourself. Like, remember that Jesus died for your sins and that you were a nobody from nowhere going nowhere until Jesus-
Seth: That God has-
David: ... died for you
Seth: ... created the world, and he's making a new one for you, and that everything that you have, even now, even if it's an iPhone, came from God.
David: Yes.
Seth: You don't ultimately have ownership of that thing, like-
David: That's right
Seth: ... that's the heart of true thankfulness, is to know that all things come from God.
David: Yep. Okay, one other thing, a- and hopefully this can just be a quick note, but I just wanna touch it. Um, it sa- I think this is at the top of chapter 9.
Seth: A Facebook poke.
David: He says your- A Facebook poke.
Seth: Remember-
David: A little poke
Seth: ... remember those?
David: Yep.
Seth: Do they still do that?
David: I don't know. I don't get on Facebook.
Seth: Right.
David: But here's a little Facebook poke. If this is outdated, sorry, we're dinosaurs, but, um-
Seth: I mean, we don't even know if it's actually a thing, so I think we're, we're on the, we're on the cutting edge. Like, we're so out of touch with Facebook because-
David: That's, we've moved on
Seth: ... we don't know what the poke is.
David: That's right.
Seth: We've moved on.
David: That's right.
Seth: That's right.
David: [laughs] Uh, we're not old. We're progressive. Yeah.
Seth: Exactly.
David: I love that.
Seth: Exactly right.
David: That's, uh, that's the lie I'm gonna tell myself. Um, and so at the top of chapter 9, I believe, it says, it talks about how when you're gonna, you're gonna enter into the land and y- and y- there's going to be these towering cities and the sons of Anakim, right? And, uh, and, and-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... don't be afraid of them. And I just wanted to mention this again because, uh, mainly because it's been an obsession of Seth and I to speculate and study-
Seth: Who are the giants of the-
David: Who are the giants? Uh, and if you'll-
Seth: ... of Anak
David: ... if you'll remember, if you wanna go back to our Numbers 13 podcast, we talk about this more, more at length, about were there the spiritual descendants of the Nephilim from Genesis, uh, living in this land.
Seth: [laughs]
David: And so I'm not gonna go into detail. I just wanna point out one quick thing-
Seth: It's like-
David: ... 'cause we, we settled it in-
Seth: ... teaser
David: ... I think between us. We, we settled it back in Numbers 13, at least for our co- our conscience.
Seth: Yeah, yeah. We settled it for ourselves, but maybe no other scholar would-
David: That's right. Absolutely right
Seth: ... uh, think- The same, but yes
David: But it's brought up here again. So he says, "Hear, O Israel, you are to cross over the Jordan today to go in and dispossess the nations greater and mightier than you, cities great and fortified up to heaven, a people great and tall, the sons of Anakim, whom you know and of whom you have heard it said, 'Who can stand before the sons of Anak?'"
Seth: Yeah.
David: And so what I wanted to point out here is that what I think Moses is doing i- at the top of Deuteronomy 9 is he is, is using heightened language to overemphasize the enemy that they are about to go face-
Seth: Mm
David: ... just like the older generation did back in Numbers 13. They overinflated-
Seth: Oh, yeah, yeah
David: ... and spread rumors that, oh man, these are the descendants of the Nephilim. These are the sons of Anakim. They're giants there.
Seth: You can't defeat them.
David: Yeah, you can't defeat them. And he's like, look, they are... Like, let's say they are greater and mightier. Let's say that they're even the sons of Anakim. In fact, let me quote, as you have heard it said, "These are the sons of Anak." He's quoting the older generation.
Seth: Yeah, yeah.
David: But he's using all this hyperbolic language. He's saying, yeah, and their cities are fortified all the way up to heaven, like they're higher than the skies. Like, he's using really inflated language, and I think he's doing this in order to show the power of God to use this weak nation to defeat a mightier nation. Maybe not the spiritual descendants of the Nephilim, but even if they were, like, God's power would crush them because-
Seth: "Know therefore today that he who goes over before you as a consuming fire is the Lord your God."
David: Yeah.
Seth: "He will destroy them."
David: Exactly.
Seth: Yeah.
David: So I just think it's meant to magnify the power of God and the weakness-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... of Israel. So-
Seth: Good
David: ... anyway, just wanted to touch it.
Seth: Good deep poke right there. It's like-
David: Little, little Facebook poke. Um, okay.
Seth: Um, so a- and it's good that you brought up that he's quoting the old generation because what happens throughout chapter 9 is a rehearsal of all the times that Israel's been faith- faithless-
David: Yes, faithless
Seth: ... throughout their time in the wilderness, not only on the border of Canaan, but also at the foot of Mount Sinai with the, the golden calf. Like, Israel has a history of not believing God, even though God is faithful to him.
David: Yes.
Seth: Um, and we'll... This is where we'll c- we'll end the podcast today, but the story continues in 10 and 11 with the giving, the second giving of the table, uh, of the 10 Commandments and, like, the resolution to Israel's faithlessness, and it ends in God's faithfulness towards them again.
David: Yes.
Seth: So anyway, right now, for this moment, we're kinda like drilling down on what precisely was going on in the heart of Israel that made them disbelieve over-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... and over and over again.
David: And I think why is this here, this little narrative, um, turn into let's focus on how faithless you were, Israel, and how terrible you were and how messed up you were. It's because, um, there is this statement that Seth's already talked about that, um, that, that Moses is warning them. When you go into the Promised Land and you have all this military victory and you get all this wealth, remember, it's not because of your righteousness.
Seth: Mm-hmm.
David: It's because of their wickedness, and we talked about that a little bit.
Seth: Yeah.
David: But it just reminded me of Romans 9, um, where you get these two things. Um, Romans 9:11 says, uh... So actually, sorry, let me back up. There's two things-
Seth: Two things
David: ... God says here in, in, in chapter 9. He says, "It's because of their wickedness and because I, um, made a covenant to your forefathers. So it's my faith- faithfulness to the covenant and because I wanna punish the wicked." And that's the same reasons that Paul gives in Romans chapter 9 for this thing that we call, um, election, is that God chose some and didn't choose others. And, like, that's the same language that's being used here in chapter 7 and chapter 9 of Deuteronomy. He's like, "I chose you out of all the nations. Why? Because you were weak, and not because you were righteous." And, and so in Romans 9-
Seth: Paul's literally in Romans 9 talking about God's choosing of Israel, like as-
David: Yes
Seth: ... a nation. Like, he's-
David: Exactly
Seth: ... he's giving his commentary on Deuteronomy.
David: Yes.
Seth: God's explaining why he's chosen Israel, and Paul's saying, "Remember how God chose Israel?" Like, that's-
David: Yep
Seth: ... he's talking about this passage, yes.
David: And when he does, he gives the same two reasons. In Romans 9:11 he says, "So that God's purpose for election may continue, which was his faithfulness to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob." It's so that he might show his faithfulness to, um, choose people despite their unrighteousness and despite their weakness.
Seth: Yeah.
David: And then the second reason, Romans 9:22, it's because God desires to show wrath to the evildoer, because he wants to show himself as a good judge, as someone who rights wrongs and upholds justice. And so it's the same reasons given for why do some-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... believe and are some Christians and others aren't. It's because God is faithful to the weak, and he wants to punish the evil.
Seth: Yeah.
David: And, like, wherever you stand on predestination election, like, I think we can all get around those ideas, that God is-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... faithful and that God punishes evil.
Seth: Yeah.
David: So anyway.
Seth: That's exactly right. That's exactly right. Um, I-
David: Yeah
Seth: ... was gonna say something, but I forgot, so.
David: Okay. Well, good. That's always a good place to end a podcast, is on a-
Seth: Forgetfulness [laughs]
David: ... on, on forget- don't forget. That, that's what the, that's what it was. Do not forget.
Seth: Don't forget. That's it. Oh, got it.
David: Don't forget.
Seth: Oh, man.
David: Yeah, don't forget. Well, anyway, we'll finish up this little pericope of scripture, um, next week with, uh, chapters 10 and 11, and then we'll-
Seth: Indeed
David: ... uh, we'll keep plugging away at, uh, Deuteronomy. Thank you guys for listening, and we'll-
Seth: Yeah
David: ... see you next week. [upbeat music]
Outro: Thank you for listening to the Spoken Gospel podcast. Spoken Gospel is a nonprofit dedicated to creating free gospel-centered media that speaks the gospel out of every corner of scripture. So to join us in our mission and view our resources, we invite you to visit spokengospel.com. [upbeat music]
